Asylvervahren-Vollzeitarbeit-Wohnsitzauflage

Question

As a family, we applied for asylum in September last year. No response from Bamf for 1 year.

We were staying in a heim in the state of Waldeck-Frankenberg(HESSEN).

My husband has been working legally full time in Baden-Württemberg since June 2021 with an annual income of over 40000 euros.

The Waldeck-Frankenberg Immigration Office told us that we need to find an apartment close to the place of work, and then they can file an application for the abolition of Wohnsitzauflage. They said that it is not possible to find out which auslanderbehörde will be responsible without making a rental agreement. We signed a lease at the end of June 2020, we immediately informed Auslanderbehörde and they contacted the new auslanderbehörde on our behalf. We waited for an answer for 3 months. By the way, they asked us to pay 870 euros Unterbringungskosten per month. and we paid.

Everyone thought that the permit would come for sure since we want to move for full-time work, but the day after our rental agreement started and we paid the first rent and deposit, we were informed that we were not allowed to move.

In this process, I got accepted from Heidelberg University, we found a nursery place for our little child.

We contacted a lawyer and applied for wiederspruch. In the reply we received, they wrote that they could not continue the process because we did not have documents such as employment contract, salary for the last 3 months. (Of course, we sent them all I've sent them by myself)

We moved from Heim and are staying in our own house now (even if it is not allowed because my husband has to go to the office every day, my daughter has started daycare and I will start my studies at the university in 2 weeks) But they still want us to pay them 870 euros per month from heim. And we are not allowed to move, but he has to work and
How can my husband commute 5-6 hours every day?

I really don't know what to do. Isn't it unfair?

Comments

We are in almost the same situation... 13 months and we still have not received a response from the BAMF .I asked my lawyer and he told me that the period of 6 months after which I can file a lawsuit against the BAMF has been extended to 18 months cause of covid ...I think what  should you focus on now is to get a decision regarding the  asylum.. Then things will become easier like moving or something like that.. because it is clear from what I have read that they will not allow you to move. Indeed, I passed through a number of cases when I was working as an interpreter in Caritas..Before residency, people suffered a lot about the issue of relocation

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I understand that for various reasons they do not allow relocation while the asylum process is not yet completed. However, in our case there is full time employment, my husband has been working for 4 months and the employment contract is indefinite. He has a work permit allowed to work in the same workplace until 2025. His salary is enough to support our family of 3 with NO SOCIAL HELP. If the workplace is 4.5 hours away from the address where we are expected to live, he will have to spend 9 hours on the road during the day if he goes in the morning and returns in the evening.

The fact that we are still not allowed to go out to our own home under these conditions violates many human rights.

1) Wohsitzauflage is already a controversial issue from the European side. It is said that it was made to provide social assistance more easily. For those who do not receive social assistance, there is still no justification for its implementation.

2) My husband could lose his job because of this restriction, which would clearly be an interference with his right to work.

3) Not being allowed to live near Heidelberg university is also a hindrance to my right to education.

4) We have a small child and as a family we naturally demand that our integrity be preserved, so how are we expected to maintain our family integrity when my husband works 5 days a week at a place with a total distance of 9 hours to and from Heim and we are not allowed to move?

These are all basic human rights. I don't think we have renounced our human rights just because our asylum period is not over.

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Since I already have an acceptance letter from Heidelberg University, That is why I say that this is an unfair intervention in my right to education.

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I sympathize with you 100% ... and I congratulate you on your rapid integration and your quest to build a better future for you here ... Unfortunately, the bureaucracy here is fatal and destructive ... especially now in the time of Corona, where previously we could meet with an employee of the Foreigners' Office directly and explain the situation to him ... I hope that things will move quickly for you..or better yet, you will get a residence permit soon..but in case this is not achieved..I would like to tell you that we went through a similar situation and after two years of our presence in Germany we were able to get out of Heim...this law where In the normal case, you are forced to stay 24 months in the Heim... I hope you don't stay until then... But I wanted to share this information with you.

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I appreciate your support, thanks a lot.

What did you about Unterbringungskosten? We rent an apartment close to the work right now, but they still charge us 870 per month for heim.

if my husband would travel from our Heim to the work ( for every day it's impossible it tooks 9 hours per day) it would cost 50 euro per day, so 1000 euro per month.

We pay right now around the same amount for rent.

do you see any solution here?

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I believe that you should submit a written application showing the reasons for you to move...especially since finding a job and the university admission you have is essential for integration...I don't think that the Aliens Office will refuse that unless your case is not within Germany's jurisdiction or you have come from a safe country  .. Even then there is a good percentage of their acceptance of the transfer request ... In the event of a  rejection, unfortunately, I do not think that before two years of your stay in Germany there is anything that can be done....Again I'm not an expert... just an asylum seeker who spent 5 years in Germany

Answer 1

We are going through the same situation and to be honest ,got completely sick and tired!

Comments

did u find any solutions?

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No! Each and everytime I try to bring up this topic of relocation and moving out, my request would be turned down everytime! Neither they will allow us to work quite far nor they are allowing us to move!

Answer 2

We had a lawyer that we agreed to get our file from Bamf in May, he says that Bamf hasn't sent the file for 5 months.

The same lawyer did not respond to our calls and messages when we agreed to object to the application for a relocation permit, and 3 weeks after we agreed with another lawyer for these procedures, he prepared the petition and sent us the invoice.

When we say that we have agreed with another lawyer as we have not received any response from him, he still wants us to pay the invoice instead of cancelling it.

For 5 years, when our lives and freedom were threatened in various ways, we tried every way except asylum to leave the country. Because we predicted that the process would be very difficult, but this is the first time I have witnessed a family trying to stand on its own feet without receiving social assistance, being punished like this for this reason.

Although I know that the purpose of the Administration is not to punish us, but the way it works and its results are no different from punishment.

Answer 3

----again an explanation of situation---

I understand that for various reasons they do not allow relocation while the asylum process is not yet completed. However, in our case there is full-time employment, my husband has been working for 4 months and the employment contract is indefinite. He has a work permit allowed to work in the same workplace until 2025. His salary is enough to support our family of 3 with NO SOCIAL HELP. If the workplace is 4.5 hours away from the address where we are expected to live, he will have to spend 9 hours on the road during the day if he goes in the morning and returns in the evening.

The fact that we are still not allowed to go out to our own home under these conditions violates many human rights.

1) Wohsitzauflage is already a controversial issue from the European side. It is said that it was made to provide social assistance more easily. For those who do not receive social assistance, there is still no justification for its implementation.

2) My husband could lose his job because of this restriction, which would clearly be an interference with his right to work.

3) Not being allowed to live near Heidelberg university is also a hindrance to my right to education.

4) We have a small child and as a family, we naturally demand that our integrity be preserved, so how are we expected to maintain our family integrity when my husband works 5 days a week at a place with a total distance of 9 hours to and from Heim and we are not allowed to move?

These are all basic human rights. I don't think we have renounced our human rights just because our asylum period is not over.

Answer 4

Dear @usagican,

Welcome back to the Wefugees Community and thank you for reaching out to us again.

I am sorry to hear that you find yourself in such a complicated situation. You hired now a new lawyer, is that correct? Unfortunately, I can not give you much more of an advice here as from my perspective, you did everything possible already. In case you haven't hired a second lawyer yet (often it only causes confusion and additional costs), you may want to contact a counselling office in Hessen oder Baden-Württemberg. They could support you to get in contact with your lawyer again or maybe even get in touch with the involved immigration offices directly. The Refugee Council in Baden-Württemberg is providing many addresses here and here you may find contact details for organisations in Hessen.

I will also link our expert @alla_fka here. Dear Alla, is there anything you could add or advise?

In any case, please don't hesitate to get back to us with any further questions.

All the best,

Meike

Comments

Dear Meike,

Thank you very much for your reply and sympathy.

I'm sure it's a very tiring process for everyone here, and for me too.

Do you have any advice about Unterbringunskosten?

As I mentioned before, since the commute takes 9 hours a day, we have rented a house near the office, although it is not allowed at the moment.

However, we still receive a monthly bill of 870 euros from Heim even though we do not live there.

If we continued to live in Heim, he would have to pay 50 euros per day for transportation. If he buys a monthly card, it is necessary to allocate 500-600 euros for transportation.

Is there anything we can do about it?

We also agreed with the new lawyer, but frankly, I don't feel very comfortable with him. Since we couldn't hear from the other lawyer, we tried to find someone to make an appointment in a short time. In his objection, he did not include any documents proving the situation, documents such as employment contract, university acceptance letter etc... He said that he didn't feel that he should include them as we in our first application already send those.  I don't know, maybe after all it's hard to believe in someone, but still, as a former attorney, it feels awkward.

Answer 5

Hello,

I'm really sorry that you are in such a difficult situation, in spite of all your efforts.

Unfortunately the problem is really difficult to solve. Normally, you only can sign a contract for a new living place (house, flat...) after the Ausländerbehörde's given you their permission. First you have to bring them an offer without signing it and ask for permission. Naturally it is a problem because the owners want to make contracts at once and don't want to wait. But there are so many problems in Germany which are just a consequence of burocratic procedures.

Especially if it is about changing the federal country (Bundesland), it is always very difficult. And I presume, it is the case here.

A big problem is that the Ausländerbehörde in the place to which you move must confirm that they agree to accept you. First, these requests (from Ausländerbehörde in your original place to another one in the place you aim to move) can take much time. Second, to get this agreement can be very difficult. They tend to reject.

It could be very helpful, if the company where your husband works supports him. They can address the both Ausländerbehörden asking them to give you a permission to move, explaining how good he is and that they need him and don't want to lose him because of this situation. Sometimes companies (bosses and colleguaes) are really very helpful.

You can also ask for help in the university. They have a foreigners department, a student organisation or perhaps more than one (I would definitely **** what ASTA can do for you) and I think they must have something like "Antidiscriminieringsstelle".

It is also possible to write to BAMF about your situation and ask for a quicker decision. But it only makes sense if you count with a positive decision (for example if you are from Syria or if you are sure to have very strong reasons. Because if you make your rejection come quicker, it wouldn't help you with your moving but would only shorten your safe time for integration through work and studing during the running asylum procedure. So it is important to evaluate your chances.

From legal point of view: I think it must be possible to make an urgent appeal to the court (Eilantrag) because your case must be decided quickly, or you risk to lose the job and the university, because you can't pay for two living places and basically you can't stay in your new place without permission.

An urgent appeal can be made after rejection of your Widerspruch. If you still have no decision from the Ausländerbehörde, you can ask them in a written form to give you a decision within 2 weeks and if they don't, you can go to the court because your need to solve the problem is urgent. Naturally it is better to have a good lawyer for that. As I understood, you have a lawyer and perhaps he or she has already started this procedure.

Comments

Thank you so much for the super interesting and detailed information dear @alla_fka! I’m sure they will be very valuable for many readers! Best, Meike

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thank you so much Alla_fka, do you know where can i learn about how individuals can go to the court in germany? İ did my research but nothing helpful, I want to continue procedure by myself.

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btw my husband followed your advice and asked his employer to call auslanderbehörde on his behalf. They did it like 5-6 times first it was hard to reach caseworker and the second they told them that since my husband did not has a refugee titel yet, according to 9 abs. 2 bw FlüAg he should live 24 months in aufnahme  durch in die untere Auslanderbehörde. So he can not live in privat wohnung. (But the same law clause states that if he secured his living they can end it before. )

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According to §8 FlüAG,
(1) Die vorläufige Unterbringung erfolgt in Gemeinschaftsunterkünften und in Wohnungen. (You can live in a Heim or in a flat during this 24 months.)
So it is not necessary to live in Flüchtlingsheim in this stage. And it is definitely possible for them to allow you to change place. You don't have an absolute legal right to claim (gesetzlichen Anspruch) but the Ausländerbehörde acts against your integration and practically forces you to stop working and studing, which would make you dependant on the state financial help. Unfortunately many Ausländerbehörden seem not to be interested to hear such argumentation at all.

For a court procedure in an administrative court you mustn't have a lawyer but it can be difficult for you because the language of the court is only German. It is difficult to give you exact advice, how to process this case. I think you need help from the lawyer or perhaps you can try to make contact to some migration councelling in the place where you live.

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Hello,
to your question how you go to the court in Germany. In the first stage you don't need a lawyer necessarily, you can process your case yourself. There are exceptions like divorce, for which you always need a lawyer, but in asylum and residence questions you can represent yourself. It is just important that the language of any court procedure is only German, so you must be able to make all written correspondence or somebody must help you.
If the court of the first instance rejects your case and you want to make an appeal to the higher court, you must take a lawyer, it is not possible for a private person.
In asylum questions the procedure in the court itself (without lawyer costs) is free of charge for you. Other procedures in  administrative courts, for example against the rejection of the Ausländerbehörde, can cost money but they are not very expensive in comparison to the lawyer support.

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Thank you so much @Alla_fka. Do you know which organizations can help me? I reached to https://probono-heidelberg.de/ but they said that they can not give me counseling this month and I just need to change my Lawyer. The problem is she is my second lawyer already and she had that five stars and good comments on google. Our first one had just 3-4 comments, and I thought it's safer to work with somebody that known better, but I was wrong actually :) There is no guarantee that my third lawyer will proceed this on our behalf. I guess I'm loosing my believe in people. I'm not expecting from a Lawyer do his/her magic and get the %100 results but gaslighting a client more than a month and leave procedure unfinished is not acceptable. I'm starting to think that is because we're refugees and basically don't have any rights or even we have we're too afraid to use them. This makes me feel unfair. When our first lawyer sent us a payment order for a job she didn't do, our second lawyer said she couldn't help and the first lawyer could even file a criminal complaint against us for fraud if we didn't make the payment and she added that will **** very bad in our Bamf file. To tell the long story short, the first lawyer said that our case was urgent and that there was a next Monday hearing, that she would write wiederspruch for us immediately after the hearing. After 24 days of that Monday she promised to write the petition, she sent us a sample petition and an invoice at 10 pm, and of course, she hasn't responded to our calls and messages until that day. After waiting 2 weeks for her to reply, we agreed with a new lawyer. And maybe I'm making a conspiracy theory by myself, but on the evening of the day we asked our second lawyer to dismiss the first, we received a petition that should have been written more than 3 weeks ago. Maybe it's a coincidence or maybe our new lawyer called her and said her to send the invoice before legally dismissing for not doing the job. We leaved the new lawyer's office at 5 pm that day, at 10 pm the same evening, we receive the invoice for the transaction that should have been done more than 3 weeks ago, I think it's suspicious. Anyway, right now our new lawyer is doing the same to us. She does not respond to e-mails, and we cannot reach her when we call the office. Of course, there is no improvement in the case, she did not send any of the documents we gave her to send to Auslanderbehörde, she did not even send the documents such as employment contract, lease agreement, bank statement, which are very important for the decision on the file. ( and for just clarification of course we made her payment for her ''efforts'' ) The reason I wrote this at length is to explain why I have lost my confidence. If someone can help me write it in the right format, I want to run the process myself from now on, so far I've had no luck with two different lawyers.

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Hello,
to say the truth, it is difficult to give you advice in the question of choosing lawyers, especially if you've already tried with two (who probably both work in the area of Aliens law) and aren't satisfied with them. I can only tell you from experience that sometimes things just need time and people think that the lawyer doesn't do anything because they don't understand the procedures. But naturally, if the lawyer didn't send important documents to the Ausländerbehörde immediately in an urgent case, it looks strange.
You always can make such a procedure yourself, to have a lawyer is only necessary if you go to the court of second instance. You just must be able to do it yourself, which isn't very easy, naturally.
If you are in Heidelberg or nearby, here is the list of lawyers in the area of refugee and aliens law there from website of Refugee Council Baden-Württemberg:
https://fluechtlingsrat-bw.de/adressen/?_sft_adressen_kategorie=05-anwaelte&_sft_standort=heidelberg

I asked one of our councelling lawyers if it can be possible to change into Blue Card during asylum procedure (naturally if person fulfils all the conditions referring to the kind of job and the amount of earnings in §18b Abs. 2 AufenthG (Residence Act). His opinion was, that it must be possible, because after this paragraph the person must have a legal claim for Blue Card, independent of the running asylum procedure. But he also said that Ausländerbehörde can try to treat it as a question of discretionary power, not legal claim, and that he himself has no practical experience with such cases.
You can check if your husband really fulfils all conditions and perhaps it is worth trying to apply for Blue Card. If you get it, there must be no limitation where you have right to live in Germany. I would anyway consult a lawyer of a councelling center on this question.